The Incredible Shrinking Roxbury

Where's my neighborhood going?

For years people have debated where the boundary between Roxbury and Jamaica Plain is over in the Mission Hill area, although most people settle on Heath Street as the line. Recently, however, I've noticed that more websites have either been listing Mission Hill as its own neighborhood or as part of Jamaica Plain. This week in particular, I've come across two sites which show Mission Hill as being in JP. What's up with that?

Actually, it seems that the real estate industry is behind the effort to move and re-brand areas of Roxbury as somewhere else. I mentioned it briefly a while back, but now one realtor is being more brazen about it. Click on the above image to see a larger view (it's very large, so don't be surprised). The building I pointed out is in Roxbury. It's a 2 minute walk from my home on the same hill, in the same neighborhood, and in the same zip code. Zip code 02119 is in Roxbury. That's my zip code. The building's website lists it in that zip code. So how the hell did Coldwell Banker decide to list it in the South End? It's gotta be a sales tactic to get more people interested in buying into the properties, but anyone who stops by for a visit will quickly realize that they are not in the South End. Don't get me wrong, the building and the units are gorgeous, although a bit overpriced for the area. Either way, it seems disingenuous for a realtor to flat out lie about the location of property. Isn't there a code of ethics or something?

We need Charles Swift to sort out some boundaries!

Comments

[adamg]

It's not just Roxbury. Somehow, the brokers have managed to extend Chestnut Hill all the way into West Roxbury.

[Ron Newman]

Your link to "The building's website" goes to a site that doesn't exist. What is the address of the building?

[Jon Ernest]

Don't just blame the Brokers here, I've had a landlord try to tell me that her property was in Needham, right on the Brookline border. ??????

You've really heard brokers claiming Chestnut Hill in West Roxbury? How the hell does that work?

[The Editor]

Boundaries are sorted! Check the blog....

[3D]

Ron, the link still works for me, but here's the url: www.5ellisstreethomes.com.

Thanks for the research, Charles.

[Thomas J. Shire, Jr.]

I enjoy all the comments about Roxbury and would like to place before you the boundaries of Roxbury before real estate agents and the USPO, or 'BREAUSPO,' for short, to coin a term.

Your writings and the comments of readers indicate an indepth knowledge of Roxbury, its history and geography so I know everyone is interested and informed. The Muddy River forms part of the boundary between Roxbury, Boston and Brookline. This places Symphony Hall, The Xian Science Center, the Y, MFA, Harvard Medical, the hospitals on Longwood, Isabella Gardner Museum, et alia in Roxbury. The Pru is built on the old Roxbury RR yards.

The 'line' between Roxbury and JP can be followed (if we want to) by following Walnut Ave. along one side of Franklin Park when it abruptly changes its name to Sigourney St.. This change occurs near the crest of a hill at the end of Montebello Road. From this point to Glen Road, Walnut Ave. is known as Sigourney St.. This change indicates a change from Roxbury to JP, a village in the original town of Roxbury as were W. Rox. and Roslindale. Each village complained of mismanagement by Roxbury and they were granted their indenpendence, as was the custom (this pattern can be seen in other New England towns) only to later merge with Boston. You know the dates.

Beacon St., from Charles St. to Kenmore is a dam known originally as the Boston and Roxbury Mill dam. When we ride or walk down Beacon St. from Charles we are on top of that dam.

Brookline was settled by people from Roxbury as were about 16 New England communities. Streets in Brookline are identical to those in Roxbury. Dudley and Warren Sts. intersect with Walnut off of Warren and a U-U Church located there. This is identical to Roxbury. The U-U Church in Roxbury has since been torn down.

I would like to hear more from others. Please share more of your info.
Many thanks.

Tom Shire

Born in Roxbury.

[Johnny Diaz]

I've seen the same thing happen with Rozzie and West Roxbury. Some people say they live in West Roxbury when they're really in Rozzie. Same goes for Allston/Brighton which seem one big neighborhood with two similar identities. I have a friend who lives on the Roxbury side of Mass Ave and he says he lives in the South End. But if you mapquest a specific address, it's usually good about telling which neighborhood it belongs in.

[Ron Newman]

The Roxbury U-U church has not been torn down. It sits happily in John Eliot Square where it has always been.

[eeka]

This is getting way off topic, but the Chestnut Hill ZIP code and address is composed of parts of West Roxbury, Brookline, Brighton, Newton. People in Chestnut Hill pay taxes to a city or town, but they can appropriately use "Chestnut Hill MA" as part of their address (or use the city/town name) just like I can use Roxbury MA or Boston MA.

[Thomas J. Shire, Jr.]

To: Ron Newman,

I understand the confusion one might have when I state that the Universalist Church at the intersection of Warren St. & Walnut Ave. has been torn down. Do not confuse that location with the First Church in Roxbury,at Roxbury and Bartlett Sts., established 1630,in Eliot Sq.. This historical landmark church is NOW Unitarian-Universalist but was formerly Congregational until the "Great Schism," of 1810 to 1830.

Also, Charles St. Church, now re-located from Charles St., near Beacon Hill, to the intersection of Warren St. and Elm Hill Ave. was formerly All Saints Unitarian Church when Elm Hill Ave. was a driveway to the estate at the top of the hill named 'Elm Hill.'

The Universalist Church of which I was speaking was on 'Buena Vista St.' renamed "St. Richards St." and now part of the Warren Garden Apartments.

I hope I have clarified some of the church history in Roxbury. So when I stated that some of Brookline's Streets are similar to Roxbury's streets in name and location, we have Dudley to Warren and Warren to Walnut in Brookline. In Roxbury we have Dudley at Warren and Warren at Walnut where a Universalist Church later known as St. Richards and owned by the Catholic Church, when it was torn down. Not to be confused with the First Church in Roxbury in John Eliot Sq. located at the intersection of Roxbury St. and Bartlett St. I hope I have clarified the matter so we can keep our geography straight.

Just to clarify my previous comment about the line between Roxbury and JP, it is closer to Peter Parley Road than it is to Montebello Rd.

Please let me know if this is clear and do share your own knowledge of Roxbury's history.

Sorry I have been so long in responding to your comment. I have been giving talks of a historical nature.

Do share with us where you are from and how we may contact one another directly in the interest of accuracy.

I remain,

Respectfully,

Thomas J. Shire, Jr.

of Roxbury and Marion, Massachusetts

[Geography Dissertation]

Blogs are so informative where we get lots of information on any topic. Nice job keep it up!!